Continuing with my “unstacking” of stuff. Note how the framing is stacked against one side of this argument. And no, this isn’t another Lloyd post:
A Conservative Recalibration on Climate Is Inevitable, But Bipartisanship Is Not the Endgame
What we need in the U.S. is rapid, complete, fair, and equitable decarbonization.
And yes, as always, reformatting and emphasis mine here. You could just read this title/subtitle combo and understand the rest of the post without reading. The burden of change is shoved onto Conservatives; WE have to take a knee to their ideas. In fact, that “Bipartisanship” bit? Totally unnecessary. They know WHAT they want, they know WHEN they want it – but it won’t be fair and it won’t be “equitable”.
Our ideas don’t matter to them. Period.
How can it when you already declared that you’re perfectly willing to completely run over your opposition? And while the subject is, once again, a complete transformation of our energy supply and usage, it’s actually about WHO controls YOU? They don’t CARE what you think – you just need to submit. And Sami Grover decided to lock onto conservative pundit Raymond Arroyo’s words about the midterm results:
Certainly, conservative pundits like Raymond Arroyo appeared to recognize the threat of not engaging seriously on this topic. Speaking on the “Laura Ingraham Show,” and later mocked by late night host John Oliver, Arroyo declared: “The Democrats were also very deliberate in their pitch to young people. They offered them drugs, recreational drugs; abortion; paid-off student loans; actionable policies that they were promising to advance—and also climate change!”
However incredulous, Arroyo’s commentary suggests something important: He recognizes that failing to offer meaningful solutions to climate change is costing his party votes (and future voters). On the one hand, this shift in awareness is a very good thing. Many of us concerned about the climate crisis would dearly love to see a shift in the Overton Window so we start debating how to best fix the problem, rather than whether the problem really exists in the first place.
Which, as I pointed out in the comments, was an ill advised take on his words (it’s clear he doesn’t listen often to the Ingraham show). And then he “went there”:
The climate movement will need to be careful as that conversation shifts. Bipartisanship by itself is not the goal. Rapid, complete, fair, and equitable decarbonization is. To the extent that inter-party policy debates can advance that cause, we should welcome them. But we will also have to keep a close eye out for bad faith efforts designed to look like reasonable debate, rather than a meaningful contribution to getting us where the science says we so desperately need to go.
And I dryly note that his use of “bad faith” was yet another slap at those of us that just won’t “swallow” the Truth that they believe is theirs alone.
Vindaloo Bugaboo set the stage for the rebuttal (which Sami RARELY engages in) and asks the question that these Eco-Socialist never answer:
Bipartisanship by itself is not the goal. Rapid, complete, fair, and equitable decarbonization is.
Rapid: not possible.
Complete: there are applications where fossil fuels are absolutely essential.
Fair: impossible to define; therefore, irrelevant and a distraction.
And THE question:
Equitable: to whom? from whom?
This is why our youth are indoctrinated in GreenSpeak—because they’ve been fed a steady diet of propaganda amid histrionics, are unaware of the scope and cost of necessary change, and don’t have their own financial interests (yet) on the line.
When 63% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, even some who make six-figures plus, who’s going to pay for these green dreams?
My buttress to his points:
Took the words off my finger tips. Sami’s primary premise is false, arbitrary, and capricious.
What’s worst, is that he seems to believe that there are no tradeoffs either within any of those given domains nor across them.
He recognizes that failing to offer meaningful solutions to climate change is costing his party votes (and future voters). On the one hand, this shift in awareness is a very good thing. Many of us concerned about the climate crisis would dearly love to see a shift in the Overton Window so we start debating how to best fix the problem,
He also has a #FAIL in interpreting Ray’s words as something they aren’t. Grover is trying to have the thought that he’s moving towards Sami’s stance with the Overton Window bit. Grover would have known better if he had listened to him over a long period of time and would have caught what Arroyo was throwing.
It’s also clear that that he, VB, isn’t listening to folks like you, Bob Baal, me, and a few others here who actually bringing up and defending Conservative / Libertarian values.
And then I was accused by a THer of not understanding what “totalitarianism” really is when I said:
Or change being FORCED upon people. That’s totalitarianism.
disqus_kDxjrtCoRJ:
No, totalitarianism is an assertion that government has the right to control EVERYTHING. EVERY government forces some change on people. That’s the only reason to have government. By your criterion, the U.N. should send troops to prevent India from forcing people to change their still-too-common traditions of suttee and dowry murder.
Amusing, as when the British conquered India, they famously eliminated suttee and dowry murder at the start of that colonial regime. And it is clear that this guy has no idea what the Proper Role of Government is – and it isn’t to “change” people:
The UN is not a governmental agency.
Yes, Totalitarianism does have a bit of a spectrum. I’m also using the history of TH here of authors and commenters fairly often calling for government force to have others live their lives in ways that they otherwise wouldn’t.
Shouldn’t the Free Market, in which consumers should be making their own decisions for themselves, be the main focus EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE with their choices? It seems that, more and more, Government should be taking all decisions away from folks like me and you. Isn’t that totalitarianism?
What, then, WOULD be the definition of a free people?
Look at the title of this post – it is calling for all “Progressivism” (aka, socialism by a different name) and all but outlawing any other political thought (e.g., MINE which holds that each of us should be making the majority of life’s decisions ourselves) that runs counter to it in any way.
And then he stepped in it by not understanding basic definitions:
One cannot hold a useful discussion on anything if one doesn’t know and USE the proper definition of words. “Socialism” is decidedly NOT a synonym for “progressivism.” Socialism is used incorrectly by American conservatives as a pejorative for anything they do not like. The actual meaning of socialism is a highly specific economic structural concept. Socialism is an economic system in which the government owns the means of production, including the land, the factories, the trucks and aircraft, ships and railroads. Progressivism is the demand for an effective social safety net for all, i.e., for social security, one-payer health care, decent education for all, safe working conditions and, oh yes, an environment that can actually sustain life indefinitely. It has no more to do with socialism than “as-SOCIA-tion” football does. And yes, if the government literally took away ALL decisions from the people, that would be totalitarianism. But that is NOT the way you used the word the first time around…you used it as a term for enforcing any and all change. Do you support or oppose a woman’s freedom to make her own decision about abortion? I’m not asking for your answer, just providing a litmus test for you to judge whether you really oppose totalitarian government as much as you think. As for how to define a free people, I do so with this “MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS” principle: “In a densely populated, resource-intensive society, the practicable definition of liberty is that the power of government is limited by constitution, law, culture and government structure to prohibiting or mandating personal behaviors when and only when [1] the prohibited behaviors directly harm or substantially imperil the physical safety and health, the lawful and fairly earned property, or the legally established personal rights of other non-consenting people (i.e., those who have not agreed to assume risk); or [2] the mandated behaviors are critical to avoiding negligent harm to the physical safety and health, the lawful and fairly earned property, or the legally established personal rights of other non-consenting people. The natural resources of the Earth are critical to the survival and well-being of all people and are therefore subject to protection and management by governments under the democratic control of all the people of their respective jurisdictions.” What is YOUR definition?
So a history lesson was in order:
Back in the 1880s when Von Clauswitz was rolling up the various Germanic City-States, socialism was starting to rear its head. American Intellectuals that went to Germany to study were all agog with this new system that was completely antithetical to the Freedoms in the US Constitution / Declaration of Independence.
Instead, they conflated this foreign political philosophy with the Industrial Revolution and posited that Society could be controlled just as Men controlled the machinery in the factories; people became mere cogs and lost that quintessential idea of Individualism (actually, they hated it).
However, as they brought it back during the 1880s and 1890s, they understood that the word “socialism” had already soiled itself in the eyes of the American populace. So what did they do?
They renamed it Progressivism but continued on with its precepts. And after a few decades, they found they had despoiled that term as well.
So with perfect framing in mind, they started to call themselves “Liberals” even as their philosophy remained the same. And then despoiled that as well.
And we’re back to “Progressivism” once again, with the “renamers” believing that no one remembered this history (after all, they are 1984-ing American history as they stroll around).
But some of us DO and we like to point it out when the opportunity presents itself.
THANKS for allowing me to tell this tale once again!
And then one more shot – I challenged the author as to his premise but of course didn’t get an answer. I DID get an answer from another commenter that PERFECTLY encapsulates how the Left views us:
Hey Sami! How come the Left always says that Conservatives have to change their views (e.g., your “Conservative Recalibration”) and never a “Liberal” Recalibration?
BassBinDevil let the cat out of the bag:
Is it because compromising with Republicans in 2022 is like compromising with a cannibal? The party went off the rails 40 years ago.
Perfect. Just a perfect ending. Get them talking, then get them talking a bit more, and sooner rather than later, they’ll tell you exactly what they think (and generally confirms what you knew anyways):
compromising with a cannibal
And with that one phrase, you’ve shown the recalcitrance of the Left when it comes to “bipartisanship” in categorizing those that disagree with you as “first they kill you, then they eat you”.
Yeah, that gives me (and those like me) just the warm fuzzies to sit down to pow-wow.
Not.
Well, there you go, Sami! How now, now?
<snip>
Just look at the second part of Sami’s post title which spills the beans:
But Bipartisanship Is Not the Endgame
There is to be no compromise at all. Bipartisanship, BY DEFINITION, means compromise. Without it, there can be no compromise.
In Sami’s little game here, ONLY Democrats have the right to force and demand change. Republicans are only to obey as he’s calling for the loss of agency.
Do I have the right of it, Sami? That your call for compromise is just a sham (and a shame)?
Be intellectually honest here, Sami, as one of your devotees already called a fair number of us here “cannibals”. Right or wrong?
<snip>
They just can’t be honest with us…
…or themselves.
Never got an answer. Not that I expected one but it would have been nice to hear a wee bit of groveling.
I’ll close with this last insight from another Conservative: Kevin Bryer
Conservatives haven’t spent the last forty year stubbornly protesting the only energy source that can actually replace fossil fuels. You know, the only one that can actually achieve the goal of decarbonization, rapidly, completely, fairly, and equitably. So you really shouldn’t be surprised when people start to suspect that it’s not carbon your after, but civilization itself.
Of course, if that is not the case, perhaps you need to do a little recalibrating yourself.
He had exactly right:
The line and insight of the Day, Kevin. It is always about Control.
Without fail.
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